Adore plasma but.... (G25 thoughts)

[sydandzach]

Having spent hours at the local shops, I was all set to jump at one of the LCD/LED HDTV's.
Well now that the initial sucker-punch of overly bright and over saturated colours has worn off a little bit, I find I'm leaning towards a plasma solution (Panny G25), but still with a little reservation.
Yes, I love the accurate colour rendition and deep rich blacks with subtle shading and viewing angles common to plasma, but I still have two issues with plasma that I don't find as much forum discussion about.
My primary concern is with the brightness and white levels. If one is watching bright sun reflections an a water surface, the plasma doesn't reflect the light back at you as well as seemingly a LCD/LED might. Similarly stars on a bright clear night or the headlights of vehicles just seem a little bit flat. It seems that everyone discusses black levels (which I agree are very crucial) but white levels and brightness don't seem to be addressed to the same degree.
The other concern I have with plasma is that it often doesn't seem quit as sharp. It's almost as though plasma screen actually does have the perfect image, BUT it's hidden behind a very fine veil.
Don't get me wrong, I still do currently prefer plasma and have based my opinions almost solely on the Panny 46G25. Perhaps another screen like the Samsung PN-50c7000 with firmware update) might suit better as I understand that it is supposed to be a slightly bright panel, but I don't know.
Perhaps other forum contributers with more plasmna experience then myself can shed a little more light (sort of speak) on the issue?

Thanks and Happy holidays to everyone!!!

[Cath]

I have never owned a plasma so I can only comment on them. The LCD can give you a great picture if you are to calibrate it correctly. I have a Sharp 52" LCD and the blacks are deep and crisp. All tvs are on the demo mode to make up for the bright lights and ambiance in side of the store. You need to look at where the set will reside and then decide if LCD or Plasma is the way to go - is your room bright during viewing? Because our living room is our HT room the LCD worked better for us as the screen was matt and did not have high reflections or glare. Once it was calibrated the picture really shines. Ratatouille really pops off the screen and no we do not have 3D.

You are right that the white levels have not been a topic of discussion on the forums that I have been on. Find a store with a good return policy and try one for size.

[sydandzach]

Hello cath, Actually the room is reasonably dark and the more time I spend watching plasma the more I am convinced that it is the right solution for me. Extremely rich accurate colour, great viewing angles and amazingly subtle black tones.
Having said that I still find there is a tiny bit of sharpness still lacking.
I guess I will continue to try slight changes to the contrast and sharpness settings.
BTW, I did spend a lot of time watching the Sharp 810UN which i did find very crisp and rich in colour, AND it was not calibrated at the time.

[akak]

The other concern I have with plasma is that it often doesn't seem quit as sharp. It's almost as though plasma screen actually does have the perfect image, BUT it's hidden behind a very fine veil.

When I first got my plasma (a TC-P42G15), I thought the same thing -- "This isn't as sharp as LCD." But I've come to prefer plasma over LCD; to these eyes, LCD looks too clinical, too much like video (especially when 120Hz screen refresh is used), while plasma offers a far more filmlike picture and better motion resolution than LCD -- when there's fast action in the frame, a properly designed plasma is actually sharper (i.e., has more resolution) than LCD.

Concerning the relative white levels of TVs, it's important to know where you are comparing sets: if it's in a store showroom, the LCD will of course look better as it can pump out a lot more light without being overdriven. In a darker environment, and with properly calibrated sets, I suspect the sets' white levels would look a lot closer to each other.

[Mike Osadciw]

Hello there!

Ahhh...the good ol' debate. There are both positives and negatives with each technology that some prefer over others. You have pointed out an interesting comparison and one I don't hear of very often either.

The bright whites you are seeing on the LCDs are caused by the increase of blue added to the picture. All LCDs by default from the manufactuer tend to have much more "blue in white", commonly referred to as a "cool" colour temperature. Adding more blue also give the impression of a brighter image - an edge LCDs have over plasmas in bright room environments. Plasmas tend not to measure as blue. It's no surprise when I'm measuring a client's TV that the LCD sets are much bluer and brighter out of the box! In the real world, the headlights most blinding at night when driving are the ones that look bluer than the rest! Ouch!

That's not to say that plasmas are restrained on their light output. They can be adjusted to output 40fL for a room with controlled lighting, which is sufficient (35fL is "reference light output"). This means it will compete with light in the room.

On a sales floor, with uncalibrated monitors, or salespeople who have left them on various settings, it's not really a fair apples to apples scenario. The LCD's whites could have been set to cool (blue) and the plasma set to warm (red).

What I can tell you - from a purely measurement standpoint - is that when both LCD and plasma are set up correctly, their white levels look the same. Both will output 40fL (same maximum brightness), both will measure a specific mathematical colour of white - D65 (x.313 y.329 on a coordinate grid in colour space). Both will look the same to our eye.

What will immediately look different is the contrast ratio - improved by a small margin on the plasma because of the deeper black level. The more we divide the brightest white and the darkest black, the greater the contrast ratio improves. The backlit local dimming LCDs are the exception offering very deep black levels.

Regards to sharpness - both TVs exhibit the same amount. The major manufacterers are capable of resolving the full 1080x1920 pixel array. Again, on a sales floor, the LCDs tend to have more edge enhancement applied. All of that stuff should be turned off when watching it at home as it's not real detail present in the video signal. Anything added to the video is considered to be an artefact and should be removed. You want to see real detail only and with the use of a video generator, I can demonstrate that quite easily. LCDs by nature of design tended to have more blur with moving images, hence all of these 120hz/240hz+ motion systems on LCD TVs. They do give the appearance of more detail but in reality it destroys real detail while making it look like a sped up home video.

If any further questions, ask away! Good luck.

[sydandzach]

Hi Mike, Thank you for that information, VERY reassuring and appreciated!
I am also curious about another thing with the G25. It was my understanding that Panasonic sets the black level to 'light' as the default locked setting (apparently the Consumer can not change it) however oddly mine seems to be set to 'dark' as the default.
I want to change mine to 'light' as I understand this is by far the better setting but as I mentioned I don't seem to be allowed to make this change.
Can you shed any light on this one.
Thanks again!

[Mike Osadciw]

So in the advanced picture settings, black level is locked out to "DARKER"? What signal are you feeding the television through HDMI? What is your source component? Give me a list/chain of components, and tell me what image mode you have it on. Also, make sure your HDMI levels are set to "auto" when you try this.

[sydandzach]

Hi Mike, yes, it is currently locked out to 'dark'.
I will confirm settings and ensure the HDMI levels are set to "auto" as you have suggested but I am out of town for the next 4 days visiting family (holidays and all) and should be able to try this Thursday evening.
I certainly will report back and I hope you might be able to follow-up then.
Thanks again, very appreciated!!!

[akak]

Sydandzach -- If you end up getting the G25 (good choice), consider using the THX mode for all inputs, which will give you a close-to-calibrated picture (and will minimize image burn-in and maximize set life). You can still tweak it further, however, but THX mode is a great starting point. Note: VieraLink, Panasonic's name for its Internet TV system, does not allow use of THX mode, but use Cinema mode and tweak it as you see fit.

[Suave]

Great conversation guys! You are perfectly correct sydandzach in saying that when talking about TV picture quality almost everyone focuses on the deepest black levels and whites are rarely ever mentioned.

I think that our video specialist Mike has provided a very clear and informative explaination in regards to why the whites appear to look brighter on LCD TVs than they do on plasma TVs - thank you very much for this Mike

Further to what Mike says above, I think that it is important to recognize that the brighter whites of most LCD sets are simply not true to life - so if you have your sights set for a TV that produces an accurate picture, this is not desirable. Additionally, most plasma TVs offer a contrast ratio that is far superior to LCD TVs, which results in many more shades of not just blacks/gray but also whites - therefore on a TV that offers a really high contrast you should also be able to see more details in the brighter parts of the picture.

In regards to the sharpness of TVs, yes many people are quickly attracted to the sharper images produced by LCD TVs but what they don't realize is that this actually impacts the picture negativelly. The additional sharpness gives content an unnatural, computer-like generated appearance. This may be fine for computer animated movies but for all other content (movies, TV shows, etc.) the slightly softer, natural picture of a plasma is definitely the way to go

Have you already purchased the new TV sydandzach? If so, which model did you end up getting?