sub opinions

[Brad]

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soooo...my room is currently setup according to the attached diagram. the green blocks are klipsch speakers, the blue blobs are an L shaped couch and a chair, and the red box is a klipsch sub 10 sub.

the room measures 18 feet long by 11 feet wide, and my listening position is exactly equidistant between the side and rear surrounds, and is just forward of the halfway line between the front stage and the rear surrounds. the drawing is not exactly to scale, but you'll get the gist of it

my dilemma is this...i have been thinking for a while about adding a 2nd sub, as i have been living here for almost a year and a half and havent had a single noise complaint yet. this tells me i am not being loud enough.

i'm wondering if i would be better off adding another 10" sub, or selling my 10" and buying a larger 12"

im looking for opinions from those with multi sub setups...what would you think would be best? i have heard stories about running into phase problems and null spots and stuff with multi sub setups. do you think the SPL advantage of 2 10" subs would be worth the extra hassle? would the simplicity of having one 12" sub that is more powerful outweigh the setup problems of positioning two subs? do you think having a mismatched pair, (one 10" one 12" in the same room would cause problems?

if i did go with the 2 sub setup, any ideas where the optimal place to put the 2nd one would be?

[AlienTech]

I've used a few different subs and still have a couple but don't have one in my system at the moment.

I have used a dual sub setup and still have it in my garage I've never really run into an issue that couldn't be fixed with placement or phase tweaking. My dual sub setup is a pair of the HSU tall skinny round subs (TN1220HO they are out of production now) with dual 500w HSU amps. Tom Nousaine's tests confirmed these were the first under $5,000 subs to go cleanly down to 20hz, they will even touch 17hz.

I set them up adjacent to my L & R main speakers and no issues in my HT room at the time. Looks like you would have room to try that configuration.

I would definitely "match" the subs to avoid any "mystery" issues that may complicate what should be a simple setup. I'd hate to be second guessing something like that.

I used to love showing them off with the launch scene from Lost In Space "and the monkey flips the switch" With 1000 w of sub power on tap, they would shake the concrete floor.

I took them to my DJ debut (mentioned in another post) and they rocked the house, even using one amp with 2 towers

[Suave]

Hey Brad,

I can't offer you any setup tips for two subwoofers since I haven't set up any rooms with two subwoofers before.

I would however like to share an insight about two subwoofer setups which I learned during my visit to Totem Acoustic this past summer. Their demonstration room at the factory contains two subwoofers. Nico Bruzzese (Chief Operating Officer) told me that they chose a two subwoofer setup because "using two smaller subwoofers will typically produce a more balanced low frequency response in all the locations in the room. Totem prefers this configuration because it works particularly well with the most discerning multi-channel music such as SACD and DVD-Audio. Using one larger subwoofer which would have better dynamics might be preferred by users who will use their speakers mostly for movie watching."

So based on what these guys are saying about dual subwoofer setups, you should ask yourself whether you'll be doing more movie watching or surround music in your home theatre.

The best single subwoofer setup I've ever heard? Axiom Audio's Epicenter EP600. It's a huge subwoofer, but if you can make it fit in your room, you'll hear low frequencies and the most subtle differences between low notes that you never even knew existed in most content. We reviewed this subwoofer a little while back - http://www.canadahifi.com/review25.php.

Axiom also offers a smaller brother, the Epicenter EP500, which uses the same technology.

I would imagine that Paradigm also has some very good offerings in this department.

[Brad]

thats some great feedback guys. thank you. i am leaning towards 2 x 10", as i tend to prefer accuracy over SPL and "boom" factor

[Suave]

Hey Brad,

I ran across an article online this morning that includes some tips about setting up two subs. I though you might find it useful.

"If your room has typical dimensions--20 x 14 x 8 ft., about 2,100 cu. ft.--one well-designed subwoofer with an internal amplifier equal in size to the full output of your receiver (full power for 1 channel + 1/8 power x the number of other channels) and a 10-inch or 12-inch driver should deliver solid deep bass extension and ample output for music and movie soundtracks. On the other hand, if the room is larger than usual (4,000 to 8,000 cu. ft. or bigger) or has a vaulted or cathedral ceiling, you should definitely consider running an extra subwoofer. Big rooms, especially the "great rooms" so common in many suburban homes, really devour deep bass, so two subs will generate enough sound pressure to fill the place. They'll also give you smoother distribution of extended bass over several different listening locations. My colleagues and friends who have large vaulted-ceiling rooms all run dual subs. Taste plays a role as well. If you like your music or soundtracks really loud and deep, go for two subs. If you have a huge room and you want really loud sound and deep bass, then look at physically larger subwoofers with bigger amplifiers, like the Epicenter EP600.

There is no specific need for two subwoofers to be identical in terms of brand name or physical size, but don't use a small, cheap sub with a large, good one. As to setup, try the subwoofers in opposite corners (diagonally) of the room, one in the front and one at the back, with an initial crossover setting of 80 Hz and the rear sub phase switch on 180. If the subs are too boomy in the corners, move them away from the corners along one wall or the other until you get smooth coverage of deep bass from the main seating areas in the room. Another recommended placement for dual subwoofers is on opposite end walls in the middle of each wall, or on opposite side walls in the middle of each wall. There is no magic formula for subwoofer placement: experiment with locations, because every room is different. But be on the lookout for "nodes," which are areas in the room where there will be way too much bass, and other areas where you will hear little or none. The idea is to tame these nodes so you get uniform output in most of your important locations. If you have a choice, square rooms are the worst for nodes; irregular or rectangular shapes are preferable, and as you move couches or chairs closer to walls, bass intensity will increase. Conversely, the middle of the room will have less bass intensity."

Original article from:
http://axiomaudio.com/tips_two_subwoofers.html

[Brad]

well i picked up another 10" sub today...once i get a chance to get my room set back up after the Radius HDs go back I will post opinions..

if you don't hear from me I am in jail due to noise complaints.

[Brad]

i finally got my room back in order two nights ago, and added the extra sub. all i have to say is "wow".

after re-running the MCACC the sub output on the sc-27 is now set 7db lower than it was before, and holy moses do these twins ever rumble. the bass is just so thick and solid and present now. you can literally feel the sound moving past you. any hints of distortion or cabinet vibration that were present when i listened at stupidly loud volumes before are now gone, as each sub seems to be doing about 2/3 the work the one solo sub was before.

[AlienTech]

sound is air being moved, the lower the freq the more air needs to be moved, multiple subs move air more effortlessly :-)

I always like my dual setup, great to see another convert :-)

[tkroeker]

Are you guys using an amp with two sub outs or are you splitting it?

[AlienTech]

my system has only 1 sub out, the sub's I was using in dual mode had out board amps that were designed to be daisy chained. receiver sub out > to one sub amp > then the second sub amp was connected to the first sub amp.